Talk:Shiv Sena

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Shiv Sena article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 3 months

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Conservatism

	Conservatism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

India: Maharashtra / Mumbai / Politics Mid‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Maharashtra (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Mumbai (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian politics workgroup (assessed as High-importance).
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Politics: Political parties Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Political parties task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Discrimination B‑class High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
B	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: this probably needs to be a disambiguation page now

-MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 06:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shiv Sena (1966–2022) → Shiv Sena – Need discussion for undiscussed move to this current title Shiv Sena (1966–2022). This article may be the primary topic for the name "Shiv Sena", even if the party has been split into two. Natg 19 (talk) 21:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Noticeboard for India-related topics has been notified of this discussion. Natg 19 (talk) 18:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Politics has been notified of this discussion. Natg 19 (talk) 18:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support It was recently moved and was an undiscussed controversial page move. Anyone who says "Shiv Sena" is obviously referring to pre-split. - Ratnahastin (talk) 05:21, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:COMMONNAME. 203.115.73.205 (talk) 12:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Andrewa/sandbox&oldid=1258715699 for the rather messy history. Andrewa (talk) 06:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Ratnahastin: Request to keep discussions open at-least for a week and provide references and citations before making major moves. Please re-open to the discussion. Thank you. --AbhiSuryawanshi (talk) 22:13, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kindly check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shiv_Sena#Clarification_on_Shiv_Sena_dispute for additional context. --AbhiSuryawanshi (talk) 00:00, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot re-open a discussion closed by an admin, you can trying asking them. - Ratnahastin (talk) 01:41, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About Shiv Sena being defunct

In 2022, the Election Commission of India (ECI) recognized Eknath Shinde as the leader of the original Shiv Sena, granting his faction the party's name and the "bow and arrow" symbol. Consequently, no new party was created for Eknath Shinde; he inherited the existing Shiv Sena.^[1] Meanwhile, Uddhav Thackeray's faction was assigned a new name, 'Shiv Sena (Uddhav Balasaheb Thackeray),' and a new symbol, the 'flaming torch' (mashaal). Therefore, it's appropriate to include the developments from 2022 onwards as a subsection within the existing Shiv Sena article, rather than creating a separate section. --AbhiSuryawanshi (talk) 21:57, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification on Shiv Sena dispute

It might be confusing for average readers and editors regarding the recent developments in the Shiv Sena party. To clarify the situation, I am sharing some key facts along with reliable references and citations to help others understand the main issue.

Split

The split in the Shiv Sena resulted in two factions:

"Balasahebanchi Shiv Sena" led by Eknath Shinde (not to be confused with main Shiv Sena) and
"Shiv Sena (Uddhav Balasaheb Thackeray)" or "Shiv Sena UBT" led by Uddhav Thackeray.

This division was temporary as the courts and the Election Commission of India (ECI) were determining who should inherit the original Shiv Sena. Ultimately, Eknath Shinde's faction, Balasahebanchi Shiv Sena, received control of the original party, thereby resolving the dispute. Following this, Shiv Sena (UBT) emerged as an independent party with its own symbol and identity, distinct from the original Shiv Sena, as they lost their legal battle in front of the ECI and the courts.

Legal Resolution of Dispute

As it was not a traditional party split, legal dispute was resolved by the Election Commission of India (ECI):

ECI granted Eknath Shinde's faction the original Shiv Sena name and "Bow and Arrow" symbol. ^[2] This also meant temporary "Balasahebanchi Shiv Sena" arrangement was merged into original party.
Uddhav Thackeray's group became a new party: "Shiv Sena (Uddhav Balasaheb Thackeray)" with "Flaming Torch" symbol.^[3]

Reasons for ECI Decision

Shinde's faction had majority support in legislative wing (76% vs 23.5%). Decision based on Supreme Court precedents emphasizing majority principle.^[4]

Key Points

Shinde retained original Shiv Sena identity and properties (i.e Shiv Sena). No new party was created, he simply inherited old Shiv Sena.^[5]
Thackeray's faction is a new party, not a sub-party of Shiv Sena. i.e (Shiv Sena UBT)
The dispute was resolved legally, not through a voluntary split.

Timeline of Shiv Sena Dispute and Split

Timeline of Events
Date	Event	Description	References
June 21, 2022	Eknath Shinde's Rebellion	Eknath Shinde, along with several MLAs, rebelled against Uddhav Thackeray, leading to a split within the Shiv Sena and the collapse of the Maha Vikas Aghadi (MVA) coalition.	^[6]
June 23, 2022	Disqualification Notices	The Deputy Speaker of Maharashtra issued disqualification notices to 16 rebel MLAs from Shinde's faction.	^[7]
June 26, 2022	Supreme Court Intervention	Shinde moved the Supreme Court against the disqualification notices. The court granted interim relief to the rebel MLAs.	^[8]
July 3, 2022	New Speaker Recognition	Rahul Narwekar was elected as the new Speaker of the Maharashtra Assembly and recognized Shinde's faction as the legitimate Shiv Sena.	^[9]
August 23, 2022	Referral to Constitution Bench	The Supreme Court referred the disqualification cases related to both factions to a Constitution Bench for further deliberation.	^[10]
February 17, 2023	ECI Decision	The Election Commission of India granted Eknath Shinde's faction the name "Shiv Sena" and the "Bow and Arrow" symbol, recognizing it as the original party. Uddhav Thackeray's faction was named "Shiv Sena (Uddhav Balasaheb Thackeray)" with a new symbol, the "Flaming Torch."	^[11]
March 16, 2023	Supreme Court Hearing Completed	The Supreme Court completed hearings regarding disqualification matters but reserved its judgment for later.	^[12]
May 11, 2023	Supreme Court Ruling	The Supreme Court ruled that the government led by Eknath Shinde would continue as it could not reinstate Thackeray's government without a floor test.	^[13]
October 30, 2023	Deadline Set by Supreme Court	The Supreme Court set a deadline for the Maharashtra Speaker to decide on cross-petitions filed by both factions regarding disqualification.	^[14]
January 10, 2024	Speaker's Declaration	Maharashtra Speaker Rahul Narwekar declared Eknath Shinde's faction as the 'real' Shiv Sena, solidifying their control over the party.	^[15]

^ Sharma, Padmakshi (2023-02-17). "Shiv Sena Rift : Why Election Commission Allowed Eknath Shinde To Retain Official Name & Symbol? Read Reasons". www.livelaw.in. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ Bureau, The Hindu (2023-02-17). "Eknath Shinde faction gets Shiv Sena name, symbol". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 2024-11-23. {{cite news}}: |last= has generic name (help)
^ "Shiv Sena (UBT) Gets Modified 'Mashaal' Symbol Ahead Of Maharashtra Election". News18. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ Sharma, Padmakshi (2023-02-17). "Shiv Sena Rift : Why Election Commission Allowed Eknath Shinde To Retain Official Name & Symbol? Read Reasons". www.livelaw.in. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Election Commission allots Shiv Sena name, bow and arrow symbol to Shinde faction". India Today. 2023-02-17. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Maharashtra Political Crisis: MVA slides into minority; here's how the numbers stand". The Hindu. 2022-06-22. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Shiv Sena MLA Disqualification Case: An Analysis of Anti-Defection Law". PWOnlyIAS. 2023-01-15. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Understanding the Shiv Sena Conflict". Supreme Court Observer. 2022-07-01. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Shiv Sena split explained". Deccan Herald. 2023-01-10. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Shiv Sena Case: Supreme Court Constitution Bench Reserves Judgment". LiveLaw. 2023-03-16. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Eknath Shinde faction wins Shiv Sena symbol war: A timeline of events". India Today. 2023-02-17. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Shiv Sena Case: Supreme Court Constitution Bench Reserves Judgment". LiveLaw. 2023-03-16. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Maharashtra Governor, Speakers' Actions Illegal But Can't Restore Uddhav Govt: Supreme Court". The Wire. 2023-05-11. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Sena vs Sena: Speaker says Shinde Sena 'real party', dismisses all pleas for disqualification". The Indian Express. 2024-01-10. Retrieved 2024-11-23.
^ "Sena vs Sena: Speaker says Shinde Sena 'real party', dismisses all pleas for disqualification". The Indian Express. 2024-01-10. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

I hope this provides some clarity and context --AbhiSuryawanshi (talk) 23:06, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to Merge 'Shiv Sena (2022–Present)' into 'Shiv Sena'

There is proposal to merge on talk page. Context: Currently, there are two separate pages—'Shiv Sena' and 'Shiv Sena (2022–Present)'—dedicated to the same political party. The party's leadership was disputed in 2022, but its existence remained unchanged. For additional clarity, please refer to the discussion on the talk page. I propose merging the 'Shiv Sena (2022–Present)' page into the main 'Shiv Sena' article, with developments post-2022 included as a subsection to provide a comprehensive historical narrative. Kindly have a look at the proposal --AbhiSuryawanshi (talk) 03:27, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not gonna work. Even Godi media outlets call it "Shinde's Shiv Sena",[1][2] We are calling it "Shiv Sena (2022–Present)" which is more supportive of your point of view. - Ratnahastin (talk) 05:30, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Shiv Sena (2022–present) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

I propose merging Shiv Sena (2022–present) into Shiv Sena because they are the same party, as recognised by ECI. For precedent see Nationalist Congress Party. Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 11:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. SS had split into SS(UBT) and BSS [Shiv Sena (2022–present)]. ECI gave the name and symbol to BSS later on and there is an ongoing court case on it. Both claim to be the "real Shiv Sena", this is taking sides in a dispute. NCP never officially split into two before Ajit Pawar was handed control of the party. MrMkG (talk) 03:48, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which ongoing court case? All court cases have been resolved. The dispute is settled as far as most people are concerned. Just by naming the article Shiv Sena (2022–present) we are recognising it as the "real Shiv Sena". Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 07:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Per MrMkg's argument. - Ratnahastin (talk) 05:04, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Shiv Sena (2022–present) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Sharma, Padmakshi (2023-02-17). "Shiv Sena Rift : Why Election Commission Allowed Eknath Shinde To Retain Official Name & Symbol? Read Reasons". www.livelaw.in. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[2] Bureau, The Hindu (2023-02-17). "Eknath Shinde faction gets Shiv Sena name, symbol". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 2024-11-23. {{cite news}}: |last= has generic name (help)

[3] "Shiv Sena (UBT) Gets Modified 'Mashaal' Symbol Ahead Of Maharashtra Election". News18. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[4] Sharma, Padmakshi (2023-02-17). "Shiv Sena Rift : Why Election Commission Allowed Eknath Shinde To Retain Official Name & Symbol? Read Reasons". www.livelaw.in. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[5] "Election Commission allots Shiv Sena name, bow and arrow symbol to Shinde faction". India Today. 2023-02-17. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[6] "Maharashtra Political Crisis: MVA slides into minority; here's how the numbers stand". The Hindu. 2022-06-22. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[7] "Shiv Sena MLA Disqualification Case: An Analysis of Anti-Defection Law". PWOnlyIAS. 2023-01-15. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[8] "Understanding the Shiv Sena Conflict". Supreme Court Observer. 2022-07-01. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[9] "Shiv Sena split explained". Deccan Herald. 2023-01-10. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[10] "Shiv Sena Case: Supreme Court Constitution Bench Reserves Judgment". LiveLaw. 2023-03-16. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[11] "Eknath Shinde faction wins Shiv Sena symbol war: A timeline of events". India Today. 2023-02-17. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[12] "Shiv Sena Case: Supreme Court Constitution Bench Reserves Judgment". LiveLaw. 2023-03-16. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[13] "Maharashtra Governor, Speakers' Actions Illegal But Can't Restore Uddhav Govt: Supreme Court". The Wire. 2023-05-11. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[14] "Sena vs Sena: Speaker says Shinde Sena 'real party', dismisses all pleas for disqualification". The Indian Express. 2024-01-10. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[15] "Sena vs Sena: Speaker says Shinde Sena 'real party', dismisses all pleas for disqualification". The Indian Express. 2024-01-10. Retrieved 2024-11-23.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

[9]

[10]

[11]

[12]

[13]

[14]

[15]